diff --git a/servers/slapd/entry.c b/servers/slapd/entry.c
index 54f7eaf296..0d0e7a27df 100644
--- a/servers/slapd/entry.c
+++ b/servers/slapd/entry.c
@@ -282,7 +282,7 @@ str2entry2( char *s, int checkvals )
 			 	 * validate value per syntax
 			 	 */
 #ifdef SLAP_ORDERED_PRETTYNORM
-				rc = ordered_value_validate( ad, &vals[i] );
+				rc = ordered_value_validate( ad, &vals[i], LDAP_MOD_ADD );
 #else /* ! SLAP_ORDERED_PRETTYNORM */
 				rc = validate( ad->ad_type->sat_syntax, &vals[i] );
 #endif /* ! SLAP_ORDERED_PRETTYNORM */
diff --git a/servers/slapd/modify.c b/servers/slapd/modify.c
index e97c847ac5..116dc3cb17 100644
--- a/servers/slapd/modify.c
+++ b/servers/slapd/modify.c
@@ -665,7 +665,7 @@ int slap_mods_check(
 				} else {
 #ifdef SLAP_ORDERED_PRETTYNORM
 					rc = ordered_value_validate( ad,
-						&ml->sml_values[nvals] );
+						&ml->sml_values[nvals], ml->sml_op );
 #else /* ! SLAP_ORDERED_PRETTYNORM */
 					rc = validate( ad->ad_type->sat_syntax,
 						&ml->sml_values[nvals] );
diff --git a/servers/slapd/proto-slap.h b/servers/slapd/proto-slap.h
index 6f41c2f0b1..e18d9bcca3 100644
--- a/servers/slapd/proto-slap.h
+++ b/servers/slapd/proto-slap.h
@@ -1635,7 +1635,8 @@ LDAP_SLAPD_F (int) ordered_value_add LDAP_P((
 
 LDAP_SLAPD_F (int) ordered_value_validate LDAP_P((
 	AttributeDescription *ad,
-	struct berval *in ));
+	struct berval *in,
+	int mop ));
 
 LDAP_SLAPD_F (int) ordered_value_pretty LDAP_P((
 	AttributeDescription *ad,
diff --git a/servers/slapd/value.c b/servers/slapd/value.c
index 2a544c050c..e81a72ed5d 100644
--- a/servers/slapd/value.c
+++ b/servers/slapd/value.c
@@ -409,12 +409,13 @@ ordered_value_sort( Attribute *a, int do_renumber )
 /*
  * wrapper for validate function
  * uses the validate function of the syntax after removing
- * the index, if allowed an present
+ * the index, if allowed and present
  */
 int
 ordered_value_validate(
 	AttributeDescription *ad,
-	struct berval *in )
+	struct berval *in,
+	int mop )
 {
 	struct berval	bv = *in;
 
@@ -435,6 +436,9 @@ ordered_value_validate(
 			bv.bv_len -= ptr - bv.bv_val;
 			bv.bv_val = ptr;
 			in = &bv;
+			/* If deleting by index, just succeed */
+			if ( mop == LDAP_MOD_DELETE && BER_BVISEMPTY( &bv ))
+				return LDAP_SUCCESS;
 		}
 	}
 
@@ -544,6 +548,11 @@ ordered_value_normalize(
 			bv.bv_len -= idx.bv_len;
 			bv.bv_val = ptr;
 
+			/* validator will already prevent this for Adds */
+			if ( BER_BVISEMPTY( &bv )) {
+				ber_dupbv_x( normalized, &idx, ctx );
+				return LDAP_SUCCESS;
+			}
 			val = &bv;
 		}
 	}